Daniel Bergey Commotion

Having been on both sides of the presented arguments (at least i think i have) here is my view:

The first view is a little simplistic. And the second feels simplistic also.

I try to evaluate a film based not on the existence of explicit content, but based on the context of the explicit content. And I’ll confess i’ve consumed a lot of media (books, movies, music, etc..) that I would have been better off not consuming.

(i can tell this comment is going to meander, and i apologize in advance)

Take violence for instance. The presense of violence in a film doesn’t make it bad. Whats important is how its portrayed. Does the movie make the violence ok? Basically, is the movie lying to you about the nature of its subject?

I think there are things that should never be present in a film. nudity is one. truth is, nudity is shameful (see the scriptures) and I have yet to see a film that was made better by its presence, or that could not have told its story without it.

But the lying issue is what I look for. The presence of bad language, violence, etc… can be acceptable if its put in its proper context. But when a film, philosophically tries to communicate acceptableness for something that isn’t, then its feeding you a lie and that bothers me.

I feel a little (or maybe a lot) of caution against trying to justify a film because you can find aspects of truth in it (but lots of untruth also).

I’ve always figured it was better to play it safe. I don’t have any beef with those folks who prefer to forgo consuming anything with a hint of bad stuff. Only, when that kind of personal conviction turns into personal condemnation (often directed at other people) then you’ve lost sight of things that are more important to the gospel.

Posted by Jason Wall on 23 January 2009 @ 9am

The question I think comes down to what we consider to be sacred and what we consider mundane. I honestly think that there is too much effort placed in trying to separate the two.

I will not argue the gospels, as they aren’t in my purview, but I will argue that the ‘Old Testament’ contains a large part of the human experience, from violence to sex, betrayal, and more. The characters contained are most certainly not perfect, including David, the apple of God’s eye.

I don’t think nudity is wrong. Nor is sex necessarily wrong in a film or other media. Song of Solomon is pretty racy, when you get into it. The question is whether it matters to the plot of the story or whether it is simply gratuitous.

But again, it is a matter of what fits the person looking. Just because I don’t eat pork, doesn’t mean you’re forbidden. Though I may be mature enough, or stable enough, or whatever, to watch a violent struggle on television without it affecting me internally, it doesn’t mean that all can do that.

I think that being able to find God’s meaning in things grows as you learn to know yourself and your relationship with God better. The more understanding you have in that relationship, the better you are able to see things that may be disturbing and understand the message without being shifted by the raw elements.

Posted by Peter Buchy on 23 January 2009 @ 10am

@jason: I agree that both perspectives can use some granularity. To be fair, it was 1:30am, and I was sleepy.

@pete: Very well put, on all counts.

Posted by Daniel on 23 January 2009 @ 10am

I love that you delved into this subject.

Here’s my rambling while chasing a toddler around:

In my past, I was very much a part of Christian Land where you count every objectionable element and then deem whether the movie is worthy of your pure and holy eyes. I think one of the problems with a blanket statement saying that “xyz movie” is right or wrong for Christians to see is that you are setting up a standard you assume God holds to as well. One that is not biblical at all.

If you pull out your list of “sins” and start marking down how many this particular movie has, where do you draw the line? If you really live your live THAT enslaved with chains of rules to keep you acceptable and holy before God (which you don’t have to do) then I would think if a movie has just ONE objectionable element then you should shun it completely.

But we don’t do that. Nor should we.

I agree that God’s story, the Bible, is full of examples of rape, incest, murder, sexual addiction, nudity (okay, so I don’t think Moses brought down pictures from the mountain but Bathsheba’s story sure paints a pretty picture for the mind), lying, cheating, stealing, and the list goes on.

But in every story you see a need for a Rescuer and the pattern weaves its way through the Bible and you discover that Jesus Christ is the ultimate Rescuer. That you don’t have to follow rules to gain approval but that you are holy before God NOW because of grace.

When you realize that, and let it apply to all of your life, then you are no longer walking around trying to be a good person and do good things and watch good things. You are simply living your life and growing in fellowship with Christ.

I think in the movies and media you consume you do see truth portrayed in a myriad of ways. Sometimes it’s more blatant than others. We see grace, mercy, evil, murder, joy, horror, and there is always truth to learn from it all. So, I don’t think we can make a Rule about media for Christians. But I do think that individuals and families can set preferences for what they personally want to watch. I just really hope they don’t use phrases like “we don’t watch it because we are Christians.”

If you have children who struggle with violence then allowing them to watch violent movies is probably not a good idea until they work through their anger. But I think it is important to explain to your child that violent movies are not “unChristian” but instead, we are choosing not to watch something that you aren’t disciplined enough to handle right now.

For me, the bottom line is that as a Christian I should be able to engage culture completely. I’m already set apart (holy) in God’s eyes, I am not having to work at it and prove something of myself. So viewing movies and media that have these “elements” are not a reflection on my relationship with God but are mere stories I can immerse myself into and come away with an impression that will either benefit or worsen my life. Or perhaps make no change. That’s the definition of a good movie, perhaps?

I don’t pretend to have all the answers to life, by the way. These are just my rambly thoughts.

Posted by Jennifer on 23 January 2009 @ 11am

i want to point out, real quick, that the nature of media should be taken into account when judging what is acceptable to portray.

nudity/sex in film and visual media brings with it problems that are arguably insurmountable. Those problems are less present (if not completely absent) in textual/auditory media. i.e you can say “bathsheeba was bathing on her rooftop” without invoking a lot, whereas you can’t show her bathing on a rooftop with the same level of propriety.

I also want to voice concern about what can sometimes be a rush to treat as acceptable many things that are better left alone because you can argue they have “some redeemable qualities”. There is much in scripture to exhort us to avoiding things that aren’t true, honest, pure, just, and of good report.

Posted by Jason Wall on 23 January 2009 @ 11am

This is a great conversation, Daniel, and one about which I have a number of thoughts. For most of my 20s, I spent the majority of my time with other believers who were of the ‘we shouldn’t do that because we’re Christians’ variety and who, I feel, shielded themselves from a lot of things because they were afraid that it would lead them into temptations from which they would not emerge unscathed. There is a certain extent to which I understand this and agree with it. There are, I think, types of movies that exist specifically to rile people up or entice them in one way or another, and while I’m not naming any titles or genres, the discerning person probably knows what I’m talking about.

Now then, let’s talk about other more ‘mainstream’ films. Fact: there is a lot of unsavory stuff being portrayed in film. Fact: some of the unsavory stuff is gratuitous, some is not. What I find to be common about most films, however, is that they are portraying something real, some fundamental truth about humanity, whether this was the filmmaker’s intention or not. If a film is about drugs and gang violence, for example (and you’ll pardon me for being overly simplistic), the bottom line is that this is reflective of real human experience. It’s not pretty, but many people are in that world. And it’s a part of the world in which we, as Christians, reside (and some of these people are individuals with whom we interact or will interact). When I watch a film that portrays disturbing images of humanity, as a believer, I take in that information and filter it through what I know about God and what I know about humanity. It does not derail me from the truth of who God is, nor from the fact that I am eternally His. If anything, it often helps me to remember that I, too, am human…that I, too, have faults…that I, too, am in need of saving grace (and, as someone said above, all truth is, indeed, God’s).

With the exception of certain more ‘adult’ types of film (and again, we know what I’m talking about here), there isn’t anything that I forbid myself from watching. The same goes with the music I listen to and the books I read. It is, in fact, the richness of this human experience - the joy AND the sorrow, the pain AND the pleasure, the desolation AND the fullness, the violence AND the peace - that has helped me to more fully understand the multi-faceted beauty of my Creator and to be able to more fully reach out to all people, no matter what their circumstances, no matter what their story.

Again, thanks for asking this question, Daniel…and for letting me ramble on:).

Posted by sarah on 24 January 2009 @ 5pm

Really?? I’m claiming ignorance here and wow I obviously have a lot to learn (and read).

What if you never put thought into it? I watch movies and think they are just movies. tv shows are just tv shows. (to me)

I don’t ever think about it. Maybe that is the problem? Does it make me less of a christian? After reading all this intellectual religious talk I’m feeling kind of insignificant. ha ha

Do you ever get afraid if you follow everything to a “T” you’d miss out on living because you’d be so afraid of doing the wrong thing? There is so much room for interpretation (and I know I just spelled that wrong) that I get confused.

Anyhow.. that’s just my rambling. I must say it’s very intriguing reading what you all have said. Good food for thought! Thanks.

Posted by missy on 25 January 2009 @ 9am